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Houdah Software > Categories > HoudahSpot Support > Does anyone know if tagging in Mac OS Mavericks is open meta?
 
 


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KipV

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Posted  #1 
I assume that it is but I just want to make sure.
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houdah

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Posted  #2 
Hi!

That's highly unlikely.

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Pierre Bernard
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KipV

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Posted  #3 
Wow that would be really be lame to not have OS support for Open meta. Do you have a copy of Maverick? Is there some way you could confirm it's support or lack there of? Microsoft added support for tagging many years ago in Windows Vista but I found their implementation to be pretty terrible. I was hoping the reason that Apple waited so long to add tagging support was that they were trying to get it right.

The more I use tagging across the system the more I realize the importance of having the maker of the OS be in charge of setting a standard so that it will work well across all the 3rd party products. Using closed systems like Lightroom and Firefox is a really poor solution. I am curious how Apple's tagging solution works on iCloud. Do you know if Open Meta tags can be used in conjunction with web apps such as the iWork apps?
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houdah

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Posted  #4 
Hi!

I hope to get around to installing Mavericks today.
I'll post once I dissected the new tagging system.

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Pierre Bernard
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houdah

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Posted  #5 
Hi!

I just gave tagging on Mavericks a try.

It is different from OpenMeta.
It works really well so far. It seems to replace Finder labels and merge those in.

In HoudahSpot 3.7.9 the "Keywords and tags" criterion will match keywords as well as both OpenMeta and Mavericks file tags.

HoudahSpot 3.7.9 still needs some testing before being released. Meanwhile, you may get it from:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/h79ue1nv9y2jsq5/HoudahSpot3.7.9.zip

Best,
Pierre Bernard
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KipV

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Posted  #6 
I thought it was really nice how they merged labels and tags together. I never use labeling but now that it works hand in hand with tagging it looks really useful.

Do your openmeta tags show up in the Finder with the new tagging feature? I know that in previous versions of MacOS you could use "tag:keyword" to search for open meta tags but I was wondering if they show up in the Finder sidebar or under the drop down menu of the search box. It is interesting how the search box comes up with that drop down menu and then divides the search results by file name or by tag. I could see a feature like that being useful in Tembo. Right now the tag searching functionality is a little bit hidden in that program.

Does Safari provide a way for you to tag your bookmarks? That would be awesome to tag a bookmark and then have it show up in a search app like HS rather then having to go to the browser to find the tagged bookmark.
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houdah

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Posted  #7 
Hi!

I can't seem to search by OpenMeta tags in the Finder.
I guess it will be best to migrate OpenMeta tags to Mavericks tags.

The search box looks interesting.
I've added it to the Tembo wish list.

Safari does not seem to have a tagging interface.
But you can reveal the bookmark file in the Finder and tag it there.


Best,
Pierre Bernard
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KipV

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Posted  #8 
How do I migrate OpenMeta tags to Maverick tags?

"But you can reveal the bookmark file in the Finder and tag it there."
That is a pretty annoying work around. I hope Apple fixes that. The mail app probably doesn't have tagging support either?

What about the Apple products that use keywords? Do they show up in the Finder and HS? I am thinking of programs like Final Cut, iPhoto, Aperture, etc.
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houdah

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Posted  #9 
Hi!

Migration will be easy.
I'll probably write a tool for that or add a feature to HoudahSpot.

The current version of Mail.app uses "flag color" rather than tags.
Hopefully that will change.

Trouble is, there already was a "keywords" tag defined system wide. Many apps used that for tagging.
The catch being that only the owning application can set that through its Spotlight importer.

OpenMeta is a workaround for that restriction.

Best,
Pierre Bernard
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KipV

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Posted  #10 
Will 3rd party apps be able to convert their internal tags over to Maverick tags as well? If so can I search for all the tags I saved in MacJournal, Lightroom, and Firefox in the Finder and HS if the developers chooses to make their tags compatible with the new tagging system?
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houdah

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Posted  #11 
Hi!

Converting and migrating should be easy.

Meanwhile HoudahSpot's "Tag & keywords" criterion already now matches keywords as well as both Open Meta and Mavericks tags.

Best,
Pierre Bernard
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levelbest

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Posted  #12 
Mail DOES work with tags. I went back to Mail after using T-Bird because in Mail, it works with metadata. Using a freeware app called "Tagger", AppleScript, and Keyboard Maestro, I can look at a Mail message and use my hot key combo to trigger the script on any .emlx (Mail) message). I like this beacause then I can have a search in HS to check on any progress notes that I have tagged.

I am still on 10.6.8. When all the smoke clears and I am confident again that the new system will work as advertised I will (probably advance my OS again if for no other reason than to get the fr4eshest version of Apples Mail, now that I again use it heavily.

Fair disclaimer: I got this script somewhere else (cant remember) but I put it in the code and it works very well. Just dont ask me to tell you how to tweak it.

Applescript:

tell application "Mail"
    set msgURL to ""
    set founderror to ""
    repeat with msg in (selection as list)
        set theId to id of msg
        set myURL to (do shell script "mdfind -onlyin ~/Library/Mail \"kMDItemFSName = '" & theId & ".emlx'\"")
        if myURL is "" then
            set testURL to (do shell script "mdfind -onlyin ~/Library/Mail \"kMDItemFSName = '" & theId & ".partial.emlx'\"")
            if testURL is not "" then
                set founderror to "One or more of the selected messages has only been partially downloaded. All messages to be tagged must be downloaded fully for tagging to work reliably."
            else
                set founderror to "Spotlight was unable to find a local copy of the selected message."
            end if
            exit repeat
        else
            set myURL to quoted form of (POSIX path of myURL)
            set msgURL to msgURL & " " & myURL
        end if
    end repeat
end tell

if founderror is not "" then
    display dialog founderror with title "Whoops!" buttons {"OK"} default button 1
else
    tell application "Finder" to set appPath to application file id "org.hasseg.Tagger" as string -- grab path using app file ID for Tagger
    set command to quoted form of (POSIX path of appPath) & "/Contents/MacOS/Tagger -f " & msgURL
    do shell script command
end if
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KipV

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Posted  #13 
That is great that you found a tagging solution that works good for you. However I was hoping to have something that is really basic and straight forward. I trust that Apple will come up with a solution in Maverick Mail soon.
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houdah

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Posted  #14 
Hi!

I have a first beta of HoudahSpot 3.8:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2381634/HoudahSpot/HoudahSpot3.8b1.zip

This version also two new templates:
- Open Meta Tagged Files
- Mavericks Tagged Files

When running on Mavericks, HoudahSpot 3.8 will tag files using both Open Meta and Mavericks tags.
It also offers an option to merge Open Meta and Mavericks tags. For this purpose, the Results menu has two new entries:
- "Select Mismatched OpenMeta & Mavericks Tags" (Typo only in beta)
- "Merge OpenMeta & Mavericks Tags"

The first will select files in the list of results. E.g. from the above templates
The second will, for each file, update OpenMeta & Mavericks Tags to have the same values

Best,
Pierre Bernard
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KipV

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Posted  #15 
Thanks for the update.

I will probably do the 2nd option as I want all my old tags to show up in the Finder.
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acherp

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Posted  #16 
Macademic summarizes the first observations on how it actually workshere. Looks like it takes some time for OS X to decipher the previously added OpenMeta tags. Some software works more smoothly with Mavericks tags than other.
[image]
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houdah

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Posted  #17 
Hi!

I have a close to final beta of HoudahSpot 3.8:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2381634/HoudahSpot/HoudahSpot3.8b2.zip

Best,
Pierre Bernard
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acherp

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Posted  #18 
Wow, this is great to be able to merge OpenMeta and Mavericks tags. I will probably start using Houdah Spot. Thank you so much!
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KipV

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Posted  #19 
@acherp

Thanks for posting the article. I can see how at some point OpenMeta will just go away as tagging handled by the OS should work much better.  I have heard a lot of people talk about how they don't think Mavericks is a huge upgrade. To me it seems like the built OS tagging support is worth it for just that one feature alone.
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KipV

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Posted  #20 
@Pierre
Can you please explain to me what "Merge Open Meta & Mavericks Tags" does? Does this turn all the Open Meta tags into Mavericks tags? I just upgraded to mavericks and would like to switch to the Mavericks tagging system so that I don't have to try to remember if I saved a tag as Openmeta or as Mavericks every time I perform a search. Can I convert the openmeta tags over somehow?
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houdah

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Posted  #21 
"Merge Open Meta & Mavericks Tags" reads both Open Meta & Mavericks Tags, combines them and writes them as both Open Meta and Mavericks tags.

You can use that to convert over to Mavericks tags. Your Open Meta tags will remain intact and can still be read by other applications.
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KipV

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Posted  #22 
Just out of curiosity why would anyone want to keep Openmeta and Mavericks tags separate? To me it seems like having the two formats fragmented can only make things more difficult.
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houdah

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Posted  #23 
The stance I took with HoudahSpot is that you'd probably want to migrate to Mavericks tags in the long run, but still might have apps or workflows relying on Open Meta tags.

HoudahSpot writes the same values both Mavericks and Open Meta tags to maximize compatibility with existing apps or workflows.
It also helps you with synchronizing the tags in case you edited tags in a tool that only supports one of the formats.

Best,
Pierre Bernard
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KipV

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Posted  #24 
The way I have things set up right now is I save in mavericks tags format from the save as menu. When I go to search for the file later in HS will it then pick up the Openmeta tags that have in the same tag as well? Do I still have to type the same tag in a field for Mavericks and another field for Openmeta after it has been synced?
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houdah

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Posted  #25 
Hi!

In HoudahSpot you can search Mavericks and Open Meta tags separately. If you want to find files that have a certain tag, but don't know if that was written as Open Meta or Mavericks tag, you could have HoudahSpot search by "Keywords & Tags". This searches both Mavericks and Open Meta tags as well as keywords set by some applications.

Best,
Pierre Bernard
Houdah Software s.à r.l.
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